SS014 Talk To A Professional

Standing Stronger Podcast episode number 14! That's right, it keeps getting better. Welcome back, welcome back, welcome back to another episode. This is episode number 14. My name's Shannon. Oh yeah, little Shannon is not in the studio right now. But she is in this podcast. We're actually recording this separately than, it's in two sessions that we are recording this. And the reason being is because we have an amazing interview for you. And this interview is with someone who helped me out a lot. It's actually with the Christian counselor that I went to see as I was going through my very, very troubling time. So I asked her to come on the podcast. She agreed, which is awesome.

And we put together an amazing little interview for you guys. So first things first, if you have not visited StandingStronger.com, go visit Standing Stronger today. That way you can get subscribed to the podcast, number one. You can sign up for our newsletter to stay up to date, number two. If you'd like to support the podcast, you can do that as well by going to StandingStronger.com forward slash support and supporting the podcast. But we are glad you are here and excited about what's going on here. So yeah, with that being said, let's go ahead and get right on into the interview. All right, so today we have a very special guest with us.

And actually, this guest was my counselor when I was going through probably one of the toughest times in my life. So if anyone knows how cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs I truly am, it's my wife and her. And I have both of them here. So the two women that have really experienced my crazy are here with us today. Now, before we get started, usually I say you shouldn't listen to a word I have to say because I'm not a professional. But we actually have a professional. However, I want you to know that this isn't a counseling session. She's not counseling me. There's no way she can counsel you through a podcast. So take this for what it is. It's generalities. We're talking in generalities.

Your first step is always, like I say, is go and seek that help from the professionals. And if you're in our area, we're going to show you or let you know how you can get in touch with Lisa as well. So it's my pleasure to introduce someone that helped me through one of the toughest times in my life, and that is Lisa Gunther. Hello. So first thing we're going to do, Lisa, is why don't you introduce yourself, who you are, what you do, how long you've been doing it, and things like that. Okay. Well, my name is Lisa Gunther, and I'm a licensed mental health counselor. So that means I have a master's degree in counseling. And I have been a counselor for over 20 years.

And I currently practice at Wellspring Counseling Center. So I've been in private practice since about 1999. And so I basically specialize in Christian counseling. I truly believe that when we involve God in the counseling process is where the true deep healing and lasting healing can happen. And so I work with adults and children and couples and deal with issues such as depression and anxiety, codependency, stress management, anger management, healing from childhood abuse, do some marital counseling, work with children and families on behavioral issues and parenting issues. Well, that sounds a lot like me, everything. You know, we also have McKenzie here with us.

So if you hear a little baby cooing and cawing, that's her. She usually does the podcast with us. If she gets a little bit out of control, we'll take her out. But, yeah, if you hear that, that's what that actually is. And I agree with you, Lisa. That's why we came to you, because you're a Christian counselor, and that's where the deep, like you said, healing does come from. First, I guess you said you specialize in a wide variety of things, but what you helped me with was depression. So, well, depression and the things that happened to me when I was younger. So could you kind of go into some of the signs and symptoms that people have when they're dealing with depression?

Because I know me, I didn't know I was dealing with depression until I was actually deep inside of it. Sure. Well, people who are depressed, they feel they're depressed. Their mood's depressed for, you know, most of the time. It's not like I had 20 minutes of a depressed mood today. So depressed mood is one of the symptoms, less interest in activities, just not finding pleasure in things, changes in eating, sometimes eating too much and overeating and gaining weight or having a poor appetite and losing weight. Some people have issues with sleeping, that they'll sleep too much as a form of escape, or they can't sleep and they're very restless.

Either they have a hard time falling asleep or they'll wake up a lot during the night and not be able to fall back asleep. Fatigue and poor energy is one of the symptoms, poor concentration, not just being able to focus on things, feelings of worthlessness, of, you know, just thinking I'm no good and I'm just not worth anything, and inappropriate or excessive guilt. And so, you know, those are symptoms that way. There's also suicidal ideation and, you know, preoccupied with thoughts of death. You know, I want to throw in about suicide that it's really a permanent solution to a temporary problem. In most things that we go through, there is a solution and it will get better if we seek help.

And so that's one of the sad things about when that suicidal ideation begins. And then psychomotor agitation or retardation. And that basically means that there's either overactivity or underactivity. So the overactivity might be that I'm pacing or wringing my hands or the underactivity might be that I'm just feeling very sluggish. So to actually, in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, thought number five, which is the manual which we diagnosed, to get major depression disorder, you have to have five of those nine symptoms that I just listed. Gotcha. And, you know, it's funny when you're listing all of those signs and symptoms.

It's crazy when I think back when I was deep in it, the things that I was going through. I mean, you were saying them. I actually, but I went both ways with the sleep. I either slept all day or I was up all night. It was one of those things where I went through one cycle and then I would get through that cycle and then I would immediately transition into the other cycle. So I'd go from sleeping all day or, you know, 16 hours a day to staying up until 4 o'clock in the morning and waking up at 7 o'clock in the morning. So it's kind of weird how I bounced through that.

And the feeling of guilt and worthlessness was definitely some of the big ones I struggled with as well, which you helped me through. And I remember this is what I always found crazy is when I went and talked to you that I would talk and talk and talk and you just listened. And I found it amazing how you could help with saying so little. And so I was wondering, I'm like, man, how am I going to get her to talk today? Because she is just so darn good at listening. Actually, one of the ways to deal with our emotions, they need to come out. And I never created our bodies for emotions to stay in.

So a lot of times it's truly that, that people will come in and they will purge all of these emotions and feelings and thoughts and situations that have happened to them and they just say, wow, I feel lighter. And really all I did was listen in that session. And so it is very important that we express our emotions. And there's actually, if you want me to go into some coping skills, there's three ways that we do that. And one is simply by talking. So we can do that with a therapist. We can do that with God. God's up 24-7. So anytime we wake up, there may not be a human that's up if we wake up at 2 a.m., but we can just talk out loud to God.

Now, even though he hears us in our head, it's not like we're expressing unless we say it out loud. I tease with people that if they have a pet that you can talk to your pet and your pet will not share any of your secrets, and that's a very good way to get emotions out. There's also a thing called empty chair where you can picture and imagine someone sitting in the chair. So sometimes it could be a counselor or it could be a friend or the person that you might have an issue with, and you can just talk to them and get it out. Another way is to write or just journaling, basically. So we either write it or we can type it on a computer, and that's another way to get emotion out.

And I encourage every one of my clients to keep a journal. I keep a journal myself. It's not something that has to be a daily chore, but it is something that when you have emotions to express, they need to come out. And then the last way is doing something physical. You'll find with guys in general, but not that women don't do this as well, is that when they get mad, they like to punch things and they break their hands punching walls and doors.

So a good is to channel that in an appropriate way that won't hurt you, and so some people have a punching bag, and if they don't, perhaps a pillow, or it could be scrubbing something or chopping hedges or lifting weights or just something to get that physical release. And so those are three really good ways to get things out. And I actually use the journal now every single day. Well, I wouldn't say every single day because that would be a lie. However, almost every single day, I'm journaling, not only to release my anxieties and fears and depression, but also to just journal the experience so I can look back and see what was I feeling this day, how did I deal with that.

And I've found, and you can kind of tell me if I'm crazy on this or if this is common, but I've found that it really helps me to go back when I know I was struggling, read the journals, and see what I was doing and how I was coping with that, and that helps me get through some tough times now. Sure. And it helps us to see our progress as like, wow, I was feeling that then and look what I'm feeling now. The other really cool thing to do in your journal too is a lot of times God will give me insights and revelations and I write them down. And I'll look back six months and I'll forget what he said. And it's so silly, but that's how we are.

And so it's important when we hear these really good insights and these things that really work is write them down because we do have a tendency to forget. Yeah, that's true. I have a tendency to forget what I thought two seconds ago. So I mean, that's a big one. Man, I'll tell you what, those just there, if we ended it right there, that's huge because man, what you just listed is kind of what I do almost on a daily basis to get through some of these trying times. But we're going to keep going because I know you have a lot of amazing things because I've experienced it.

So the next question we have for you is what type of positive habits can you incorporate into your life if you're dealing with a constant anxiety, constant fears, constant depressions or any other things like that? Sure. So certainly the expressing the emotions would be good. And there's also endorphin releasers. There's a chemical in your brain called an endorphin, which is a pleasure chemical. And actually we'll find when people cut, which is this huge issue that's happening now in our world, it releases endorphins when people cut themselves. And so that is obviously a very negative coping skill.

And so other positive ways to release those same chemicals would be to do aerobic exercise, anything we do to get our heart rate up. And so it could be 20 minutes of aerobic activity and you probably heard it described as a runner's high, but we can get that in doing anything, whether we're running or walking or biking or swimming or doing an aerobics tape, that releases that chemical. Also pleasurable music, whatever your favorite kind of music is, will release an endorphin for you.

I do encourage clients who are going through depression not to listen to depressing music because sometimes if we listen to love songs or, so I like a beat of a rock song, I have no problem with that, but some of those things are encouraging you to do very negative things or to hate. And certainly that message isn't going to help us. So positive music that you like will release endorphins. Also laughter, which is very biblical, laughter is good medicine. That's for watching something funny, reading something funny, hanging out with children, they like to laugh. Actually an average four-year-old will laugh hundreds of times a day.

And then when we become adults, we laugh maybe four times a day. So we just lose something as we get older. So it's kind of cool to hang out with children and to see the joy that they have at the simplest things. Dark chocolate releases endorphins, which is a lovely thing as long as we're exercising balance. I was going to say, I know a lot of women that are going to love that advice. It's a good one, yes. And then hot water. So taking a very hot bath or a hot shower will also release that chemical. Yeah, I can remember back.

It's crazy to me that we're thinking back because it seems so long ago, but it wasn't so long ago in this timeframe that God has definitely pulled Shannon through his depression. And to think back on the things that he would do or say, and again, those tips that you're offering. Of course, us going to you, obviously we got our tips from you, but knowing now like when you're going through it, all of this doesn't just settle in. Again, that journaling, going back and looking and where you were and where you came from and how you still go through it and things that you do. He's not a smoker.

He is not the negative habit person, but when he releases those endorphins, like you're saying, it's funny because I can see where he's like, I just need to go and take a shower. I just need to take that hot shower. And that's funny because he used to be a smoker and that would be his way out or punching walls. That would be his way out. And thankfully those things don't happen anymore, but you can definitely see that psychological, the things your body does naturally, due to put you in a positive setting. Yeah, it's crazy that you mentioned all that because what you're saying, I must be an endorphin junkie because all of those things I just naturally do.

And one thing I tell everyone, and when they ask, how do you overcome your depression? How do you overcome your anxiety? I do it really with what you just described. I say, I move, I listen, and I do. If I can move and get my heart rate up and my sweat going, if I listen to positive, uplifting music, and if I accomplish something, it makes all those bad things seem to go away. It makes me feel a lot better. And the crazy thing about that is now I realize that I move, I listen, I do, and then I shower really hot for like 15 minutes afterwards as well. So yeah, I guess I am an endorphin junkie.

Well, Lisa, I want to ask you, with those positive habits, if someone was to start to fall back in, because there is a cycle, there's something that you can't always be on the high, you can't always be positive, something, that little voice comes through, the devil plays on your life to make you start to feel that self-worth deteriorating and just takes you back through in a negative way. What would you say to someone that has been on a positive track that starts to fall back on the negative side? What advice would you have for them? Well, what I would suggest is another coping skill, and this is basically paying attention to our self-talk because that's where we're defeated.

And a lot of people believe that it is not situations that lead to depression or anxiety, it's our interpretation of those situations. And so what I tell myself about what happened will lead to my emotion. And so a good example is a roller coaster, for instance. If I go on a roller coaster, I like roller coasters and I'm excited, there could be the person next to me who thinks, oh my goodness, I'm going to die. And so I'm feeling excited, that person's feeling terrified, and the only difference was what we told ourselves. And so when it comes to depression and anxiety, we have to be very careful. And God's very clear in this in His Word.

He says we want to keep our thoughts captive in obedience to Christ, and we want to think about those things that are true and noble and right and pure and lovely and admirable. And we want to have the mindset of Christ. And so we want to ask ourselves, what am I telling myself about this particular situation? And so we defeat ourselves by saying it'll never get better or there's no help for me or I've done too much and God has rejected me and my situation is beyond help. And it's not true, and those things are lies. We know scripturally that the enemy is the father of lies, and so he loves to try to take us down with just getting us to believe.

And he will insert lies into our head and then blame us for having them. And so the Holy Spirit is the spirit of truth, and the Word says that we should know the truth and the truth shall set us free. And so we really want to do that cleansing of our minds, and that's what our journals can help too, is when I'm feeling depressed or anxious, I want to ask myself, what am I telling myself right now? And write it down. And a lot of times when a thought is outside of our head, we can see it a lot clearer, particularly with fears. An acrostic for fear is false evidence appearing real. So when I have a fear in my head, it seems very tangible. You know, like when someone sees, you know, a roach.

There's women who are terrified. Well, in reality, a roach is not going to do anything to harm us. It's just gross. Right. But in our head, it's, oh my gosh, I'm going to die. This is a disgusting roach. And so we really want to take a look at, you know, what is the truth about this situation? And the Holy Spirit is our ultimate counselor, and he will help us. And so if we just simply ask him, you know, what lie am I believing? And what is the truth? And he will answer those questions for us. And once we, you know, remember, identifying the lie is huge, and then dispelling it with the truth, it takes a lot of power away from that.

They're all excited about, oh, I'm going to do all these wonderful things. And sometimes our expectations are unrealistic that, you know, we tried to bite off more than we can chew. And so we want to be realistic. We want to start small. And if my goal was, well, I want to exercise every day or three times a week, and then I find myself it's been two weeks and I haven't exercised, instead of condemning myself, you know what, I'll start today. And I'll just begin again. And it's okay. And so there's no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. And certainly there's no reason for us to condemn ourselves.

We want to be gentle with ourselves and support ourselves and be our number one cheerleader. Another huge coping skill is support. And if I have people in my life, depression and anxiety both will tell you to isolate. And that is the worst thing we can do. And so when we're all by ourselves and we, and then we feel like we're all by ourselves, it will just take us deeper into that pit. And so if I have support and I have an accountability person, for instance, they're going to ask me, how are you doing? And if I committed to journaling or to, you know, going to counseling or attending church, whatever I committed to, they'll ask me how I'm doing.

And sometimes that will keep me on track as well. And knowing I'm not alone in my issue, because a lot of times the enemy will lie to us too. You're the only one that feels this way. And no one has ever felt this way before. And you're ridiculous for letting that bother you. And when we get around other people and we realize, wow, okay, I'm not the only one with this issue. And other people struggle with this too. And it's okay. And it's normal. So I definitely recommend support groups. And there's groups throughout town called Celebrate Recovery.

And the higher power in the 12 steps of Alcoholic Anonymous, one of the steps is there's a power greater than ourselves that can restore us to sanity. Well, in these groups, that power is Jesus. And some of the secular groups, you get to pick what your higher power is. Well, we know that there is only one true higher power, and that is Jesus. And so that's where the healing comes. So those groups are very free. And you can probably, you know, Google Celebrate Recovery on town and around town. And I know there's one church in town that calls it Road to Recovery. But nonetheless, it's a support group where you can go with any hurt habit and hang up and just receive support. Right.

So those are really good coping skills too. And certainly before we move on from coping skills is involving God. Scripture is very huge. When Jesus was in the wilderness and the enemy was tempting him, he spoke, it is written. And so we want to speak to our depression and our anxiety. And we want to say, you know, you don't have authority over me. And so there's really cool scriptures that speak on this. There's 365 scriptures in the Bible about anxiety. And so when I myself was struggling with fear more so years ago, but it's not that it's a defeated issue in my life either, is that I memorize a lot of the verses.

And I just went through the concordance and ones that spoke to me, I wrote them down. And then I ended up committing them to memory. But there's a couple of cool ones that says, cast your anxiety upon me for I care for you. Or you've not been given a spirit of fear, but of power, love, and a foul mind. And there's another one that says, when I'm afraid, I will trust in you. And God is word I praise. And God I trust, I will not be afraid. What can mortal men do to me? And then when it comes to depression, David and the Psalms are really cool when you're dealing with difficult things because David just cried out. That was kind of like his journal as he wrote the Psalms.

And you can see that he was dealing with anger and feeling betrayed and sad. And there was one where he wrote, why are you downcast on my soul? Why so disturbed within me? Put your hope in God, for I'll yet praise him, my savior and my God. I was driving to work one day and I just felt the heaviness over me and there was no particular reason. And I just quoted that Psalm out loud and it was good. And so sometimes it's just true spiritual warfare where the enemy just tries to put this temporary down on us. And if we don't fight back, it can wow. And so definitely using scripture and knowing that we are never alone, that God is always with us and he wants to help us.

He heals the brokenhearted and binds up their wounds. And so nothing that we're dealing with is impossible for God. Even if the medical community said, you know, this is unhealable and it can't be fixed. God says, you know, with man this may be impossible, but not with God. All things are possible with God. And so there's always hope in God. And so that's a really cool way to go to. Yeah, that's some really awesome advice. That's a lot to take in, but that is a lot of... We love giving the glory to God. That's our point of doing this podcast. We know no matter the situation, good or bad, it will always bring him glory.

And we've learned that through our journey that is hard and of things that you go through, whether it's simple life lessons or deep down hurts and things that, you know, we've openly talked about with Shannon's past and to try and help someone. Because like you said, there's so many people that feel like they are the only one that the devil makes them think, you know, you could never talk about this. You know, you're not strong enough to deal with this. And they're absolutely right. You're not, but God is, you know, in what you said and telling those anxieties and fears to step behind you out loud. I definitely believe in that. I tell Shannon that all the time. Oh, yeah.

I think everyone should stop right now, rewind the last 10 minutes, and listen to that again because that is not good advice. That is not great. That is amazing advice. I, well, as you were talking, I'm typing like as fast as I can, which isn't very fast because I'm one of those humping peck typers. So I'm going to have to go back and listen to this like five times because I was taking as many notes as I possibly could because, man, I'm telling you, you were speaking the truth. You, man, now I remember why you're so awesome because you are amazing. So before we go to the next question, though, let me just recap what we've got so far.

And I'm going to put this, I'm going to talk, I'm going to say this in my speak, what you've talked about because it's my notes. So this is how I wrote it. So first we went in and we started talking about a little bit of the coping skills. And the first coping skill you talked about was getting it out, speaking it. So I put speaking it and I put journaling, speaking to an empty chair, speaking to God, and getting those feelings out. Next release, getting, I put release it, and that's getting the endorphins out, exercising, music, hot showers, things like that. Next I put rebuke it. And that's the negativity in the devil that's in your head. Keep it out. When it comes in, get it out.

I always say as soon as that negativity comes in my head, I try to replace it with a positive, and if not one positive, seven positives to get that negativity out of my head. And then lean on it. Hang on. One more, before you move on, one more thing to remember. There's three voices that will be in our head. It could be ours, it could be the enemy's, and it could be God. And sometimes the enemy does not have to speak to us because we're so good at doing it ourselves in a negative way. And so we definitely want to discern what we're hearing. And if it isn't positive for us or if it isn't God, then we definitely do want to rebuke that. That's good. The three voices.

I'm writing that down as well. Yeah, we talked about that a couple of weeks ago in one of our other podcasts, and we had said that we create our own valleys. You could be in the valley, and you could be on the mountaintop, and eventually you're going to be in one of those two places, but to understand when you are in a valley, you're leaning on God. Is this a valley that is a valley that you need to go through in life lessons, or is this a valley you've created and put yourself there? You're down in the trenches over the negative self-talk and the scenarios that you've created that never, ever come to light. Sure.

Statistically, 93% of what we worry about never comes to be, and so that's a waste of a lot of emotional energy. And so we definitely want to take a look. One of the huge questions to ask ourselves is, what are the odds this is going to happen? Is there any evidence to support that this thing I'm telling myself has any truth? Mm-hmm. And also, if I'm hearing you right, with those three voices, you need to be aware of what's going on, and you want to be able to discern who it is that's speaking to you. Are you putting yourself down? Is the devil attacking you, or is God speaking to you, trying to tell you what you need to do next? Is that kind of what you're saying as well?

Am I reading that right? Yes. And it makes make this positive and if they start down a negative trail how can I turn that negativity into a positive conversation.

This is another coping skill but it sits really good in this spot to say boundaries and so sometimes I need to say no to a situation with this family member or I may need to limit it so if it's Christmas for instance and I have a family full of alcoholics then I may need to come from 8 to 10 a.m. and leave before the drinking starts you know and so it's not all or nothing that we can you know limit and say well instead of spending all day and having it be this free for all negative fest I'll just come for a little bit and enjoy and then leave and so I'll pray before I go and ask God to go before me and just produce the climate of peace there and sometimes positive affirmations help too and we can just tell ourselves you know what I'm not easily offended I'm fine this is good and we can just go in and make the best of it.

Awesome. So one other thing you talked about as well is support and that's what we just talked about so you want to get the emotion out you want to get some endorphins going these are all coping skills we've talked about you want to keep the negativity out discern those three different types of voices the type of influences you have on your life and get support so that's kind of what we've talked about so far and this next one is big for Shannon because she dealt with this she went through this so maybe you can talk to not the people that are going through it but the people that are helping someone go through it. Right.

During the first 72 hours of Shannon trying to commit suicide and going through the counseling center and coming out and he was home and he was talking to me and he said I don't need to go and talk to anybody else I can just talk to you and we have a very open marriage we're very close we've been together forever but I literally at that point am very thankful for the faith that I have in God the ability to stand still and let him be that scripture was very prominent in my world at that moment of be still and know that I am God and I had to tell him you can't talk to me about what you're going through because I am not equipped to help you and I think in a lot of situations people want to help people I wanted to help them I wanted to step in and make his world this magical rainbow slide that we could go up and down and take everything away but I didn't have that ability I knew that this situation that we were going through was much bigger than me it was much bigger than him and that we needed to seek counsel we needed to get into a godly situation for wisdom and that was hard for him because again that then took him there was arguments at that point why can't you just support me why can't you just listen to me and I didn't know how to handle that so even myself sat through a couple of counseling sessions and even at that point he had said will you just come with me that fear he had of maybe saying it out loud or talking to someone without me being present thinking you know we share everything together and that's fine because she knows everything about me and that was great but I had to even tell him there's things you have to talk about that I don't need to know and that I don't my brain cannot grasp what you're going to talk about and that's okay and that's where I feel a lot of times people ask me well you know my husband's going through this or my wife's going through this and what would you say to help me help them and I would just tell them to know sometimes the situation is bigger than you and you have to seek that counsel but someone that's you know just starting out we didn't know that and I'm just thankful that God intervened very quickly in that light for us but if that wasn't the case for somebody and they have a family member and they're watching this whether it's their husband their mom their dad their kids you know what advice would you give them as an outsider?

Sure I think that it's sometimes it is really true that we're not equipped listening is one but a counselor has the skill set to know how do you get past this and sometimes as abuse survivors we want to remember every detail and somehow we feel like there's power in knowing those things but sometimes God protects us from that information that we need to know enough to know what basically happened and that can help us tap into the shame and the fear and the false guilt and the anger and the hurt but we don't need to know it all and so sometimes we have to be careful of you know trying to ask for the very thing that would be hurting And so we have to understand, too, that even though I may think I'm ready to know this, I may not be.

And that's the wisdom of God is if we give him authority and charge over all these things, then he will let us know what we need to know, when we need to know it. And if we don't need to know it, then, you know, we can just have peace in knowing it's okay. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I totally agree with that. And we've talked about it before. And like what he just described, that I know his personality. And in the way the world is right now, and you can find out anything about anybody. So, you know, we have turned this such a negative, dark time in our life. And what he went through, and I'm not trying to downplay that at all. I mean, that was a very dark, dark area for him.

And to know that he's brave enough to talk about it. But really to release it to God for his glory, we wouldn't be able to sit here and do a podcast like this. I mean, three years ago, no way. No way would he have thought, let me tell the world, you know, what's happened to me, you know, but to release that and let God work through him for others to show God's glory. You know, that's the amazing part of this. And the neat thing about God is pain is never wasted with him. And so he promises in his word that we know in all things, God works for the good of those who love him are called according to his purpose. And so any pain we've gone through, God can turn it for good.

And this is a good example of that is here, you know, you take your mess and turn it into your ministry that you guys are doing this podcast to help others with these issues, because you're not afraid to talk about these things. They need to be talked about and they're out there. It's not as rare as people may think. Right. You know, even for Shannon, what he went through, we've had our own family members say, you know, oh, well, that stuff doesn't happen. And we were look at them going, hello. We it does happen. It did happen. It has happened. It's more prominent today than it ever has been.

And now it's just more people are aware because people are actually able to release this and talk about it and stand up. You know, and that's important for sure. But so many people think that, oh, and he'll stand right in front of them, you know, for them to think, oh, that stuff doesn't really happen. No, no, no, it really does. You know. And the thing with the shame is, you know, the stamp that's placed on anyone who's been sexually abused or any kind of abuse for that matter, and shame will try to motivate us to keep it secret. And so shame thrives in that secrecy. And to tell our story, it dispels the shame and it takes it away. It's not this dirty, ugly secret. It's OK.

And we realize, we imagine in our minds that people are going to recoil in horror when they hear about this thing that happened to us. But most people view us with empathy. And not to say that there aren't a few people out there that are, you know, not, I don't want to say jerks. I was trying to think of a nicer way to say that, but be careful who you talk to because some people don't get it and they will be like, whatever, what happened in your past, get over it. Some people just don't get it. But there are plenty of people out there that truly will just feel empathy. And you're talking about it will help them.

And in general, the cool thing for you, Big Shannon, is that men try to keep it secret even more. And it doesn't have to be because when someone's abused, they didn't do anything to cause it. And so there's no true reason for them to feel any kind of shame. It's really a reflection of this person who did this horrible thing to them. It's not a reflection of that person. And so we do need to talk about it. I do encourage you, if you have been abused and you're listening, find someone that you trust and talk to. And I've had, one time I had a woman come in and she was 65 years old and she had never told anyone that she was sexually abused as a child and never even, not even her husband.

She came in, she told me once and whoosh, she disappeared. I never saw her again because she just couldn't handle it. And that's a shame. So I was glad she got it off her chest, but I was sad to see that she didn't stay and continue to work it through. Right. And that's a big thing is to work it through because that's one thing I was able to do with Lisa and it didn't happen in one session. It took many, many sessions. And before I told Lisa or before I actually attempted suicide, I had only told two people in my entire life, my wife once and one of my best friends once. And that is it.

And the only reason I did that was because I was thinking of suicide so much that I had to tell someone because I really was starting to think I was going to try to kill myself. And that's what it will do to you, the pain, the anguish, if you just try to keep it in yourself. And I can't tell you how better, how much better life is without that secret weighing me down every single day. It's like taking a thousand pounds off of your shoulders and giving it to God and saying, here, I'm not going to carry this anymore. You died for this, so I'll let you take this. But, well, we've had Lisa on here for 45 minutes now, which is amazing.

It seems like it's gone really fast and you've given us, I mean, just an amazing amount of wisdom and everything else. So unfortunately, we're going to have to end this. But before we do, if someone is in this area, in the Central Florida area, and they're hurting, you know, they've had abuse in the past. They're struggling with anxiety, panic attacks, depression. If there's marital issues, all of those things Lisa talked about that she can help you with at the front of the podcast. If you're dealing with any of that, Lisa, why don't you tell them the best way to contact you to schedule a counseling session with you? Sure.

The phone number to the center I work at, Wellspring Counseling Center, is 352-592-7740. We also have a website and it's gethelpatwellspring.com and that would be a great way to contact. That's fantastic. One other thing before we go is one of the reasons why we end the podcast the way we do is because I know the power of prayer. Not only from church and everything else, but because of what I went through and the help I received. One of the things I did, like I've always said, is I talked to a Christian counselor, which happens to be on the phone with us. And every single time we ended our sessions, we would end that session with a prayer.

And those prayers always stood out to me and they always helped me through the week. I would lean on those throughout the week until I met with her again. So I was hoping maybe you could do us the privilege of ending this podcast for us with a prayer. Sure, I would love to. Okay. Heavenly Father, we just come before you and I just ask you to be with every person who's listening right now. And we know, Lord, that you understand their pain. You know what they're going through. You describe yourself as the God of all comfort who comforts us in all of our troubles.

And I just ask right now that you would comfort them, that you would instill them with your hope, that they can repeat as David that, why are you downcast on my soul? Why so disturbed within me? I will put my hope in you, Lord, if you are my Savior and my God. And so I ask, Lord, that you would just reach in and that you would help them know they don't have to be alone. Plug them into support. Plug them into a good church family to love and support them. And we ask, Lord, that you would just deliver them from this depression or this anxiety or the shame that they feel and help them have the courage and strength to tell their stories.

And so we thank you, Lord, that your word does not return to you void. And we just ask that you would use everything that was said today, that it would bring you honor and glory, but it would bring help and healing and it would heal broken hearts and bind up wounds. And we thank you for both the Shannons and we just ask that you would just use the work that they're doing. And you can use it for good, Lord. And we thank you that you've taken their pain and you're bringing good out of it. And we know that you'll do that for everyone who's listening as well. So we just give all of these things to you in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen. What a great podcast.

And we just want to thank you, Lisa, from the bottom of our hearts for coming on here and spending the amount of time you spent with us because I know you're busy. But before we go, I want to give someone one more time, I want to give them your phone number, which is 352-592-7740. They can call that number to schedule a counseling session with you, Lisa. And they could also go to gethelpatwellspring.com. Is that what it was? Gethelpatwellspring.com. So that's the podcast. Thank you very much, Lisa. We appreciate it. Welcome. It's my pleasure. All right, guys. So that was an exciting podcast. We thank you guys so very much for stopping by.

And if you haven't been to the site, visit the site, standingstronger.com. That's standingstronger.com. Get subscribed to the newsletter. Support us at Patreon, whatever you want to do. But as always, hopefully you have an amazing day, and we'll see you on the beaches of the world. Move along to the song singing in your soul. Feel the beat, clap your hands, let it take control. All you need, all you want, are you ready to find your way? Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. It's your day and the world is waiting. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. Every day is a new day. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. Everything's going your way. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. Put your heart in the clouds forever. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.

Keep it together because it keeps getting better.