Marriage - Learning to Forgive

Welcome back to the Standing Stronger podcast. Today, we're going to be talking about marriage, and it's going to be awesome. That's right. It keeps getting better, baby. Welcome back to the Standing Stronger podcast. My name is Shannon. And I'm little Shannon. That's right. The power couple with the same name. Back for another episode. Today, we're going to be talking about marriage, how to navigate marriage, all that good stuff. It's going to be a fun episode, and you're going to hear about some of our quirks, some of our lumps, and some of our bumps, and some of the good things that we do as well. Yeah, we're by far the like perfect couple, but I feel like we do life together really well.

So, you know, we obviously do life with a lot of people, and everybody's marriage is different. So, it's not like we're saying do it our way, and this is the way it goes, because within your own walls, you know how your household functions. But we enjoy doing life together. We've been through a lot through the years, and we'll go through that a little bit. But in the end, we're stronger together. Well, I think you said we are by far the perfect couple. Or did you mean we're not the perfect couple? What? When you started, you said we are by far the perfect couple. I was, yeah, but I was 14. I wasn't 28 when I got with her. Well, we've been together for 27 years. Correct, yeah.

Been together for 27 years. She was 13, and I was 14 when we got together. Yep, married for 19. So, you know, we have a lot of years. Like, we have friends. I try to be friends with people that are older than me, so I can always be the youngest. We take that as a joke, but I'm pretty serious about it. She actually very is serious about it. We're like, we meet new people, and she's like, we cannot hang out with them. They are way younger than us. Yeah, no. I have a very selective group that I coach with that's younger than me, and those are the only people that I hang out with that are younger. Everyone else is older. Yeah, if they don't coach cheerleading, yeah, you have no shot.

But, you know, so our friends are older or our age, and to hear, you know, most of them have been married 27 years or 25 years, and we're right there with them. We're just 10 years younger than them. So it's kind of funny. But, you know, like you said, to give you a little bit of that background of who we are, like you said, we met when we were 13 and 14. I was in eighth grade. He was in ninth grade. You know, the silly, stupid high school drama stuff we went through, like a lot of people do or a lot of people don't. We definitely went through stupid, stupid high school stuff, but a lot of that helped shaped our marriage as well.

So as much as it's immature and dramatic at times, you know, we made it through the high school years. A lot of people, you know, said we wouldn't make it through, and if we did make it through high school and we got married, they said they would never last. That's true. And we've definitely proved that wrong. You know, not that I was out to prove people wrong. Yes, you were. When we got married, like the song that we danced to, our first song was Shania Twain. What is the name of the song? You know, it goes, they said they'll never make it, but just look at us holding. That song. What is it called? They Said? Looks like. Oh, Looks Like.

And then as we were dancing around, she was pointing at everyone who said that we wouldn't make it. Well, you know, I mean, it was a joke, and they did say that. They said, like, Shannon and Shannon, I mean, we just. You're like, I wasn't out to prove them wrong. Yeah. Oh, yes, you were. I'm not calling them on the phone today. That's probably why you're still married to me. I mean, married to me. You're like, yeah, right. You'll see. I'm going to the deathbed with this guy. They will not be right about you. No, definitely not it. The least people pleasing person in this world, I think.

However, you know, real struggles that we did go through, you know, we want to kind of give that background because you might be going through those things now. You might experience things that we have no idea about. But we do know how struggles can affect a marriage and, you know, kind of make you feel like you're crumbling. And you do want to give up or you want to just, you know, cry your eyes out or be mad in a moment. But, you know, what marriage means to us is different than a lot of people see marriage as well.

Well, and one of the advantages we have is all of the crap that people go to go through when they're 27, 32 or whatever, whenever they meet their significant other and get married. We went through that stuff super young. Most of the garbage we went through in our teenage years before we were even in our 20s. And then when we were in our 20s, it was our early 20s that we went through a lot of the garbage that a lot of people go through. So I think that allowed us to, you know, have a leg up in terms of working through things because we didn't have kids. We didn't have, you know, the other stresses of life hanging over us as we were navigating through those difficult times.

No, I'm very thankful that a lot of the things we went through were before life took over. You know what I mean? Like being a true adult and those, like you said, the stresses that come with that. So, you know, like we said, we met when we were 13 and 14. We got married. I was 21. I was 22. And 22. So right before that all took place. Well, not right before. A couple years before we got married. You know, there was cheating in our relationship. Now, it was prior to marriage. I'm very thankful for that. You know, Shannon will say, I never cheated on my wife, which is absolutely the truth. We didn't have any of those marital struggles that we had before. But that was a thing.

That was something that happened and choices that were made. And anyone that's gone through a relationship or is currently going through that, it's a hard thing to just walk away from in general. But I would say it would be easier to walk away than what has to go into the rebuild of it. Would you agree with that? It's easier to walk away than to actually rebuild it? Oh, yeah. It's definitely easier to walk away than to rebuild it. And one thing I'm grateful for is, number one, when you did want to walk away, which was validated and warranted, like I did not give up and kept forcing my way back into your life so that we could try to work it out.

But one thing I'm grateful for is that you gave me that shot, that you were willing to work through the infidelity that happened. And to kind of tell you exactly what happened, I ended up cheating on Shannon while I was in the military. And a girl got pregnant, and I had to tell her that another girl was pregnant. Literally, I think it was like six weeks before we were supposed to get married the first time. We ended up not getting married at that date. We got married later. But I had to tell her that. And obviously, most people would have walked away, and she wanted to walk away as well. And I think she still wanted to be with me as well, but I…

Kept trying to get back with her and then she gave me that shot. I'm forever grateful for that. I think in those moments, you don't know what you're doing. You know what your heart desires, you know what your brain is telling you, something different. There's a lot of very conflicted emotions that you go through and it's not for anyone else to understand. I think that was really important. There was a lot of people that were against you that were in my ear telling me all the reasons of why I needed to walk away, but I think you know as an individual what you feel inside. It might not be right for someone else to stay.

I don't know what someone else is going through to talk about that, but I know what we were going through and the emptiness that it brought to me that I knew if I didn't try my hardest to make that work, what that felt as well. It was like weighing out, like I said, I can't say that it was easier to walk away because that feeling of walking away was so empty and so hurt. Not that you don't get over it and you don't move on, and so I do still think that's easier way than what we went through for the rebuild, but it's hard to, you shouldn't judge anybody else that's going through it because like I said, you don't know what they're feeling inside. I'm thankful today that I didn't walk away.

I'm thankful that I went through all these other struggles that were in the future. I don't regret it ever. There's not one regret that I feel from it, so I know it was a right decision, and I think when you're weighing those options out, when you're going through those struggles within your marriage, writing out things like your pros and cons or just praying about it. We were definitely not Christians at that time, but now I would love to say, not that I ever want to experience that again, but well, if that was to happen tomorrow, I'd be out the door. You don't know that. You just don't, and it's always easy to look at someone and say like, oh yeah, I wouldn't put up with that.

Oh, I wouldn't do that. There's no way. You know what I mean? But that's someone else's life. That's not your life, and everybody's different in how they handle things, but just that's a little bit of background on that. I will say before we move on on that is as much as I wish I would have never cheated, and that wasn't the first time, unfortunately. I did it through high school as well, but this particular situation, actually some good things came of it. Number one, the kid that came from it was a good thing. He's a great kid, and I will never claim that situation as a mistake because of him.

In reality, that's a good thing because he's a great kid and is living a cool life, and that was not a mistake, and another good thing that came from that is it made me realize that Shannon is the only person that I ever want to be with and that I would never do something like that again because I never wanted to lose her, so that's another good thing that it opened my eyes to the fact that Shannon is the world to me, and I never want to lose her, and I'll never put ourselves in that situation again. Right, and obviously we've talked about this, but just to share a little bit of that is I would always just take you back.

There was just like, oh, I'm sorry, and that forgiveness, it doesn't replace the hurt. I think in that moment, the hurt that you knew had caused me was unbearable for you because I meant that much to you. Right. So to hear or have to even admit that to me wasn't something that you could cover up anymore. There was another human life involved. There was no like she'll never know, no one will tell her, and I'll deny it until whenever. It was you actually had to openly admit your fault in what you had done to me in that moment, and so I think that was a huge thing for both of us in knowing that that was a pivotal moment in our relationship as well. Yes, agreed.

And then again, coming back together and working through that, a lot of people did not understand that. I lost a lot of friends. I mean, my family was willing to walk away from me, and I was willing to choose you over any of that, and again, I don't regret any of that, and thankfully I didn't have to choose family or things because perspective came into play, I think, a little bit, but there are people that have to choose that, and I think my advice would be like you know what is good for you, and I'm not saying to stay in something that's unhealthy, that there's abuse or you have to have the change of direction.

That's what I was going to point out is it's never worth staying in an unhealthy relationship, and that's not what we're advocating for. However, Shannon was very confident in me that when I told her that I am willing to do whatever it takes to make this right, she believed that, and I demonstrated that. So it wasn't words I was saying. I was demonstrating that as well. For instance, I left where I lived and came to live where she lived, and through that I was able to build back those relationships with her family because they were able to see also that it's not just lip service that I am going to change for the better and that I'm not going to be a toxic person in her life.

They actually got to witness it. So it's one of those things where if you're in that type of situation, you shouldn't just stay when the person is not changing and not willing to change, and you shouldn't just stay because the person says they're going to change. You should only want to work this out if the other person is demonstrating that they are actually taking the steps necessary to make the changes in their life so that the relationship gets better. It's a two-way street. Not only did she need to give me forgiveness, but I also needed to give her a reason to forgive me. I needed to give her a reason to trust me, and the only way you can do that is through your actions.

Words mean nothing in this scenario. So it's one of those things where if someone has done it and done it and done it and they've been abusive, and number one, I think if anyone's abusive, that's something you should walk completely away from. But if they're still in the same patterns, if they're still in the same habits and they're not changing what they are doing, then this scenario doesn't apply. Right, and even once everything starts and you start that process of the forgiveness, it's one thing when you forgive, and then you have to know, like I've struggled with this in a lot of areas of my life, to be able to forget.

You know people have said that, like, well, you can forgive, but you never forget. I don't believe that because you do forget. Like, you do forget that, not that I forget, like my memory's wiped of what we went through then, but I forget to not trust you, or you know what, am I saying that right? The word not is a problem. Right, well, you haven't forgotten what I've done. No. But you have forgotten that I'm capable of that still. Right, like it is the furthest thing. If tomorrow someone was to come and say that, I would laugh in their face and be like, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Like, I'm that confident in who you are and who you've become that if a rumor was to come about, it would literally, like, they would have to prove to me to no end that that happened. It just is not something that's on the forefront of my mind. Now, when you're going through that forgiveness and you have to rebuild that trust like anything else, I don't care if it's your friend, it's your husband, it's your parents, whoever it is, if they've lied to you, you then always, like lying, it's hard. You know, that went in with that. Like, there was lying that was happening for that end result. You know, but to rebuild the trust is really hard, and that took us about two years.

Even though we were working through it, we were living together, we were doing life, we were having fun, we had really good times, but as soon as a really bad time would hit, that all came back. It all would just reflare up because I truly hadn't forgiven you. The hurt was still really fresh, or if you were on the phone… on and didn't answer me right away. It was who are you on the phone with? What's happening? It just would constantly take me through those feelings of not trusting you. Right. And it's that not trust is the reason why Shannon will never, ever have a surprise birthday party ever again. We're not going to talk about that.

But the rebuilding of trust, like I said, there were good times, there were bad times. And when the times that got bad again, they were not even relevant to that situation. It didn't matter. It just came right back out because the hurt was still it was like an open wound that just wasn't healing. Well, I think the birthday is a great example of what you're talking about. Because I was planning a surprise birthday party for her and she was pregnant at the time. And I'm talking actually, it's right when cell phones first came out. So I'm on one of those Nokia like brick phones, showing our age here.

But she could hear me talking to a girl and me telling her that I was talking to my friend, that's a guy. And she knew that I was lying to her. And she got super, super mad. And, you know, because at the time, she's big and fat and pregnant. I was pregnant. She was big and pregnant, not fat, but big and pregnant. And you know, those insecurities and then I'm talking to a girl saying that, you know, I'm talking to a guy and those types of things come back. And then all of a sudden, she's like, well, is he what is he doing? And why is he lying to me? And what's going on? But in reality, it was just I was trying to plan a surprise birthday party.

But, you know, those things creep up in those ways. However, at me, people like in my situation need to understand that she has every right to question you because you have lied. She has every right to question you because you have been unfaithful. So when those questions come up, you need to do a good job to take a step back and say, OK, this is deserving. And I should have to explain myself because that trust hasn't been completely built back yet. No. Right. I agree with that. And then even understanding, like, as it goes further along, what was finally, you know, I think the very pivotal moment for us, it was right. We were going to get married.

You know, we were planning everything out like we had worked through a lot of those obstacles and we had gotten into a fight. And I just threw it right back in your face. And, you know, you looked at me and you said, like, if we're going to get married, you can't do this. You can't tell me every single time what I've done wrong two years ago because I've done everything possible to make that correction in my actions and in our world to prove that I am not that person. I'm not going to do that to you. And now, again, this wasn't like six weeks after this was two and a half years after. Right. Right.

So, like you were just saying, like understanding where your partner's coming from in one aspect, but your partner also needs to understand if those actions are being taken, you can't just hold on to it and put it in your pocket. So when you think you're right, you throw it back to make them feel like garbage because that's not that's not good either. And I remember you saying in that time, like, if we're going to get married, if we're going to do this, this has to stop. You can't do this anymore. And that was an eye opener for me to say, like, you're right. Like, you're right, because I'm holding on to so much anger from that still.

But it really wasn't anger of mistrust or or distrust, whatever it is. But it was more of I wanted to be right in a situation. So I'm going to make you feel like crap again, you know, and that's not OK. Like, you still have to move forward and in your own growth as well. You can't just hold on to that to constantly blame someone if those actions have actually taken place. Right. Well, you know, it's funny. We had like a whole list of everything we were going to go through. I think I think we're probably going to end up. Chopping this into a couple of different episodes, episodes, because there's a lot of things to work through here that I think are helpful to people.

And I don't want to rush through all of this and try to just make our point because we're trying to rush through and keep this to 30 minutes when we could definitely keep going. We could keep going a little bit longer today for that. Yeah, I'm all right with that as well. But, you know, that kind of goes through what happened, the rebuilding of trust that we had to go through. And then now married, started living life, had a married couple, had a baby. And then I had brain surgery. Yeah. So we definitely have old podcasts on that that you could go back and listen to it, that journey. And we won't go into detail on that.

But I would say brain surgery was what you would think would be the hardest thing for me was probably the easiest as far as marriage goes. And I just say that because there's so much of it that I didn't know. You don't remember. Right. I don't have recollection. I didn't have those – I had different emotions because I was the one going through the short-term memory and the frustrations and the seizures and things like that. But ultimately that fell on you. As a mom, I struggle with my own things, but that's different than marriage. But in our marriage, you basically went from watching your wife thriving as, you know, everyday life situations to having to take care of her like she's a child.

Right. So not only did I have a kid to take care of, I had my wife to take care of as well, who at the time she – for those who haven't heard, after the brain surgery, she ended up with a seizure disorder and short-term memory loss. So she couldn't be with our kid alone because she couldn't remember if she gave him medicine or things of that nature. She couldn't take her medicine alone because she didn't remember if she's taken her medicine. So it was kind of like 50 First Dates but not as bad. When our son walked for the first time, I heard about it. I heard – like she experienced our son walking for the first time for like three weeks.

So every single time he would walk, she would freak out because, you know, he had walked for the first time when he had been walking for a couple weeks. But that's kind of what she was going through and what we were going through as a couple and trying to navigate through all of that was not easy but worth it. And I think that situation right there is where I won your family back because they seen that I was serious through sickness and health. There was nothing I wasn't willing to do for you in terms of our marriage. I was going to be there and I was going to be there for you. And that's why I talk about with actions. Like that wasn't an easy time.

But that was a time where it was easy to see that I was not the person I was and that I was completely committed to our marriage and doing whatever it took to make sure that you were okay. Right. And I think if we wouldn't have rebuilt from the struggle that we had gone through right before or gone through right before we got married and you were still that other person and I was sick, it would have been very easy for him to walk away and go find another girl and create a whole other life, leave me to my sister and my mom and dad. That would have been an easy thing. Not that that's who you were, that you still have a conscience, but there's a lot of people that aren't like that.

And so I think even there might be people listening that aren't married yet. That's something you need to look at in the person that you are looking to marry. If you're with someone that is a me person, you can't be a me person in a marriage. It just is not going to work. There are going to be days where you're a me person and that might work, but in all around, when you take those wedding vows, people in certain situations, I don't think that they truly take them as serious as what you're supposed to. And like you said, in sickness and in health, I mean, I was sick. I could not take care of myself.

And those are times where people struggle in their marriages or they were already in a struggle and somebody got sick or they were already in a struggle and their children get sick or things. And thankfully, I don't know that aspect of it. But I do know that if you're with that person and you don't have that strong marital foundation, going through anything in life is going to be extremely hard. Yeah. Extremely. So again, brain surgery, that's a big feat to overcome. And then it's not that it was my turn, but then Shannon battled attempted suicide and depression. Yeah. So anxiety and depression is something I dealt with from a kid.

When I was eight years old, I was was sexually molested and abused, and it was something that I never talked about. I stuck it in my back pocket and refused to talk about it. Well, as I grew up and life hit you and other things pile up on top of you, that became a real struggle for me, and I still didn't talk about it. So it took actually getting to the point where I thought taking my life was the best option before I actually was willing to get help. So I was there for her when she needed it the most, and then I went through what I went through, and she was there for me when I needed it the most.

And I think in marriage, one of the hardest things, whether it's something like brain surgery or anxiety and depression, watching your spouse go through those things and not being able to just fix them is a really hard thing. It's really hard to watch them with their own struggles. And now that you're not there for them and you try to make every day a better day for them and that's your job as a spouse, but truly help and fix them you can't do. Right. And if you want to hear more about Shannon's brain surgery and my suicide attempt and depression, you can actually go back into the archives, and we talk extensively about that and how we got through that.

So I don't want to harbor on those two situations too awfully long, but I think it's important to understand, like she was just saying, is when you're going through something, and possibly to the time it's the worst part of your life, you really got to really lean on that solid foundation. Because in my case, I was put on medicine, everything else, and actually in Shannon's case as well, she was put on medicine that totally changed our personalities. Right. So Shannon was put on seizure medication that affected her personality. I was put on, obviously, depression medication that affected my personality.

So as we were working through these hard things in our lives, these medical situations in our lives, we were also in an area where our personalities were totally changing because of the medication that we were on, and it wasn't because it was our fault. It was just the reaction that we were having to that medication that we ended up both not taking anymore. But you add all those together, and that becomes a situation that's not easy. Well, and again, I look at that and say, watching you go through those struggles, I couldn't fix you. I have zero idea of how to help someone in that. And even if I could, it's just not healthy to do that. Right. Like you need to get your own help.

But I think about things I've heard in other people, and you think like, what a jerk. Like they just walked away. Sometimes in those situations, like things happen. Like even we were so strong in our marriage that if someone else would have comforted on the side, like you had. I mean, I had girlfriends, you had your boyfriends that were there like checking on us. And you could fall into that trap of, I just wanted someone to console me or whatever. That was never a case. We surround ourselves with people that are like-minded. If they weren't, and if they would have approached us in that manner, we would have walked away from that. Like it's not even allowed.

And I know that if you're listening and that's happened in your marriage, like that is not okay. Like you have to remember those vows and those moments. You know, you have to take them beyond serious to know who you're surrounding yourself with and how that could be unhealthy for you as well. And the last thing you need in that marriage is while your spouse is struggling to have to deal with that on the other end of it. Right. Like I couldn't imagine that. So I'm very thankful for, again, the struggles that we were able to work through and build and the trust that we had in each other to care for each other.

Even though it looked completely different, there was never any other option than us. Right. You know? And listen, we're not saying that there aren't fights where you're just like, why am I doing this for them? Or why? You get in those, whatever your brain wants to throw out in a moment. But as soon as you can calm down and think, like we've definitely had those moments where like walking away is not an option. Right. It's just not it for us. And listen, we fight. Shoot. Two weeks ago, we were screaming at each other. And it's not like it doesn't happen. Right.

And the difference though, the difference is, is we scream at each other and we keep screaming at each other until we figure out what's going on. And then we talk to each other and we talk to each other until we figure out what the best solution is. And with all of this, we're not therapists or marriage counselors or anything like that. However, I can tell you this, we are very good at marriage because our marriage is fantastic. It is great. Is it perfect? No. Do I scream at her sometimes? Does she scream at me sometimes? Do we get in tizzies? We absolutely do. 100%. Do we agree all the time? No. I mean, shoot. Just if I say, what's for dinner? It's guaranteed to be a 10 minute fight.

All the girls know what I'm saying. But we're not perfect and we're not on here trying to say we're perfect. And I mean, I guess if you listen to this, you can certainly think you're perfect. You can certainly say that I'm not perfect. But listen, she has her issues as well. So it's not that we're coming in here and say, hey, listen, be like us because we're perfect. What we're saying is, listen, we've been through the gamut of situations and we've successfully maneuvered through those situations and have come out better on the other side. I would say right now, this moment, our relationship is better than it's ever been in our lives.

And the good thing is each year, each day, we're building on top of that foundation. We haven't got to a point, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the way I feel, we have not got to a point where we're just fine with our relationship. We're still making it better every single day. Right. I definitely agree with that. And we're going to move on from our struggles part to kind of go in that different direction. You know, we did, one of the other things I have here is, you know, we do business together. Business is a hard thing to do for a married couple. Yeah, especially when one of them is considered kind of the boss and the other one is not considered kind of the boss.

I don't know which one you're referring to, but I know I'm the boss. Well, I mean, you're the boss. But what I'm saying, when I say that in terms of kind of the boss, is if I give you constructive criticism, you take it very, very personally. So, and we're not going to go into that right now, but we are in a little bit. Oh, sorry, I'm getting ahead of us. You're getting ahead of us there. But I'm just saying in business, we've had to learn how to do business and marriage separate. Right.

We have to have a division of what our roles are within our business, and that was a big struggle, like for me, of understanding when we are communicating, whether you're talking to me in a business aspect or as the leader of our household aspect, and they're two different things, and understanding how to communicate in that. And that would be an entirely different podcast for those that do business together. We could talk for seven hours about that. Because that's a hard venture to go into.

And in the beginning, you think it's all going to be fantastic, but then you realize how you talk to each other in your marriage or in your household is completely different how you would want it to be spoken to when you're doing business. Right. So, you know, that's a whole different topic. But that was one of our other struggles that we had to overcome. And I think along the way, what made this marriage really hard is you're finding and losing yourself all the time individually. And you want to be that better person for your spouse, but you also need to be that better person for yourself before you can fill up someone else's cup. That's exactly right. And we talk about this whole podcast.

We've talked about us, us, us. And in order to, and I'm still learning this, Shannon's figured it out more than I have, but in order to be the best version of yourself for your family, you have to, 100% have to, take time for yourself and work on yourself and do the things that you want to do and get fulfilled in your personal hobbies and your personal ventures in order to be the best version for your spouse and the best version for your family. Yeah, and again, that's another podcast that we'll be diving into is finding and losing yourself and understanding how to, and again, this is a struggle that we deal with every day.

We have a lot of things going on in a day, and time can be a big struggle. But where you prioritize your time is very important. And, you know, one avenue is always going to be, you know, for a dad, a husband, as the provider of our family, of what is going to be the best, you know, for the moment. Because you are that leader of that household. Whereas, you know, for me as a mom, as a woman, like I'm looking at other things. Like I have to take care of all these humans that we've created. I have to take care of my husband. I have to take care of myself. I have to take care of this. There's just a lot.

And so that, again, will be a whole other podcast on, you know, finding yourself and losing yourself as an individual and how to work through those things. But back to, like, the roles of a marriage, we do believe in the roles of a marriage of husband and wife. And that's because this is what works for our dynamics. There's other dynamics that I know personally that work great for other people that I wouldn't even attempt to try in our marriage because it's not who we are. So what we're saying is this works for us, but you know what works for you. And maybe if you aren't doing what we're doing and what you're doing isn't working, then maybe try it these ways.

Because, again, going back to individually, you never know in the atmosphere somebody was raised and what they were shown because we are all only as good as what we know. We always strive in our own household to be better for ourselves, for our kids or things. You know, I tell my son all the time, I want to be a lot like my mom in a lot of ways. And I want to be a lot like Shannon's mom in a lot of ways. And there's things about both of them that I don't want to be like. And that's okay because I know each of them have the same feeling about their own mothers. There's just things that you find that I want to be that good like my mom was. I want to be that good like Shannon's mom was.

But in also realizing, like, I'm not everybody else. I am who I am. So in our marriage, understanding what our roles are. I don't expect Shannon to be the provider of our home. And he is not that I'm not busy. And he knows that too. And he does, especially as we've grown in our marriage, stepped in to help me a lot more, whether it's meal prepping and helping me with that or, you know, learning to work the washing machine, which is quite funny for a 40-year-old man to turn on the washing machine for the first time. But these are just the roles that work within us. So he expects to make sure, like, okay, I've been out working all day. I've been literally gone all day.

I would like to eat dinner. I understand that. It's a struggle that I still have individually to make that work. And as frustrating as it can be, he understands that as well. He knows what I have going on on the other side. So if it is dinner and he's, okay, I've got this all prepped. I just need you to go light the grill and get that started for me. He knows that that needs to happen for the end result to happen. And he respects that. Right. Yeah. I mean, and it's one of those things where our roles have dynamically changed. And one thing that we actively, actively do is ask each other, what can we be doing better? And listening to that feedback. Listen, we're not perfect people.

And there's things that we do on a daily basis that irritates our significant other. And what we've learned is you cannot change other people, but you can change yourself. And changing yourself will change other people. And what I mean by that is if I do the dishes, Shannon will want to make dinner. If I do something that helps her, it makes her want to help me. So I change in a way that I put her first and try to help her. And she changes, you know, by a result of that, because what I've done has helped her. And I'm not saying I do things to get a reaction out of her.

But that's what you have to look at when you're looking at these types of things in your dynamic inside of the family is you need to look at what you're doing and assess if what you're doing is making life for your partner harder. And if it's making life for your partner harder, then you need to change the way you're doing it and make that change yourself, because you can't expect them to change everything. Well, and I preach the word perspective a lot. And I think when people actually apply the word perspective and utilize it and sit back and evaluate before they just react to something, you just need a little bit of perspective.

And that comes with communication and not just making up your own stories. But perspective is just opening up your eyes to the whole situation. So there's moments where you'll be grumpy as everything and I will be irritated that you're grumpy because I'm so happy and I don't understand why you're so grumpy in this moment. You just woke up. I don't understand. But perspective is maybe on that day I'm looking and go, okay, this has nothing to do with me. Nothing at all. I haven't done anything. I haven't said anything. I'm not even a part of what is causing this anger. And the truth with us a lot of times, it's not even something that's happened in that moment.

It's something that's happened in the past. Or I can relate a lot of Shannon's feelings back to when his dad passed away. Things that just creep in. I'll look at the calendar and go, oh man, we're like two weeks from the day his dad went into the hospital. Those are just things subconsciously, even though that was 13 years ago, it doesn't matter. They're still there in his brain that he knows when he hears a date, that's what's happening. His birthday just passed. He was the grumpiest birthday boy ever. It's just totally different than who I am. But really what he was evaluating was all the things he didn't already do that he wanted to do by the time he was 42.

Because that's what he does every year. He gets mad at himself for where he didn't have the growth for the past year. Am I right or wrong? Yeah, yeah, you're right. She knows me very well. There's a lot of things where you just have to use perspective and know when it's about you and when it's not. And when you react to something that's not about you, you're really just making it worse. Yeah. And that's the truth. Shoot, from my perspective, I thought once you started staying home and you were a stay-at-home mom, like what else do you have to do? Like you literally, you're a stay-at-home mom. It's not the hardest.

Listen, I will tell you from experience, I now know that stay-at-home mom is the hardest job on planet Earth and you never get to take off ever. So it's one of those things, like she said, perspective of me. Maybe I'm grumpy because I've literally worked until I passed out, woke up and know what I have to do throughout the day to get all of that work done to provide for my family and I'm grumpy. However, I have to have perspective that she woke up and worked until she passed out taking care of our family and now she's up and looking at everything she has to do to take care of our family. So she's grumpy. You know what I mean? And like you said, it's just perspective.

We often look at our situation and think it's the prevalent situation and that they have no clue. And just because her situation is different than my situation doesn't mean that my situation is any harder or my situation should garner more respect or something to that nature. It's the same. It's just different. And we got to look at those differences and realize that they're a lot like ours. They're just structured just a little bit differently. Right. And so I think that kind of brings us into our closing for this segment. But, you know, just to kind of recap what we talked about and what works for us is maybe some helpful tips that you can apply to what you're going through.

And these aren't just in marriage. This could be you're not married yet and you're dating, which I have a bunch of ideas for that that I like get to express to a lot of teenage girls right now. And we'll go through that later. And it still applies. All these things that you speak to your kids, I hope that you speak to your kids, are the same things you have to apply to yourself. You have to do the same things yourself or your kids are not going to follow. But, I mean, I want my son and daughter to surround themselves with the most positive people. I want all negativity removed from their path. Well, if you're not doing that in your normal life, your kids aren't going to do it either.

Because, again, we're only as good as what we're taught. So, I always say my whole journey every day is to just be better than I was the day before. I'm going to fall short all the time. Or I might be great one day. But I just got to be better every day. It might not have been the best day, but it wasn't the worst day. And when it is the worst day, it could be worse. Like, you just got to be better. So, I think for a couple of things for us in a marriage, communication, number one, is key. You know, you need to be able to communicate your feelings in a healthy way. And for me, I've said for a long time, like, I'm the five-minute girl.

Like, give me five minutes I want to say and say it the best way that I know how, where Shannon is a very like I'm going to say whatever I'm feeling in that moment and I'll come back to it and figure out what I said wrong later. I don't want to do that. And now that one way is right. I mean, he's an emotional person and I'm not. I am the better communicator in our relationship. However, I don't have that stop the feeling filter from coming out. You're an emotional communicator. I'm an emotional communicator. In the moment, I can't stop talking about it.

Where she's like what the guy usually in a relationship, the guy wants to walk away, compose his thoughts, compose his feelings and come back to it where the girl is usually the emotional speaker and we're kind of opposite there. I can't stop talking about it. I have to talk about it. I have to work all the way through it and not study it. It has to happen right now. Yes, I will look at him and say stop talking. Just shut your mouth. Like I just need a minute, you know, and then I could tell him five minutes, three minutes. I walk upstairs and two minutes and 87 or 87, two minutes and 28 seconds. I come walking right back downstairs and I'm like, no, this is this. Right.

And she's like, you just shut up. I have my full five minutes to process and then I can and then there's a lot of things that go into communication. That's for a whole other time. But for communication is very important. But at the end of the day, we're willing to sit down and talk about what just happened and work out why it happened and not who's at fault, but how it got to that situation. How did you perceive what I was saying? How did I perceive what you were saying? And how did we twist that in order to make it a huge fight when it in reality shouldn't have even have been a huge fight. But we're willing to sit down and look at those things so that hopefully we don't do it again. Right.

And guess what? You probably are. But, you know, you need to sit down and talk about those things. And I think the second tip would be respect. I mean, respect goes a very long way when you're even when you're communicating with someone. But in general, you know, there's name calling and there's blaming and there's all these evil things that can make their way into a marriage. The respect part goes a long way because if I'm yelling at you, calling you every name in the book, that's just as bad as what you would do to your own children.

And with that being said, I know it's different than marriage, but I give my kids the same respect to speak to them that I would want them to speak back to me. You know, so I don't treat my kids any different than what I'm treating each other because we that's the respect that we demand in our household, which is hard with kids. But I just messed up. I just messed up yesterday with our kids because I was late. I was trying to get out of the house. I picked up the nut. I hadn't ate all day. I picked up the nuts to take with me and the top wasn't screwed all the way on. It hit the floor and they went everywhere. And I'm cursing right in front of our four year old. Crap, she's not four anymore.

Seven or seven year old. But it still isn't okay. Like in those moments, it's not okay because that's what she's seen of how to handle a situation. Right. So next time she drops peanuts, guess what? She wants to drop the F-bomb. I hope not. And then, you know, we have forgiveness. Forgiveness is hard to work through. But even if it's little, there's no measure in my mind of like the I'm sorry. Understanding that it's not just the word. But in any moment, if you need to say you're sorry, you need to say you're sorry. But it can't just be a word. It can't just be like, that's how we get through that.

And I'm, listen, I've had my own struggles with that because I am a person that needs to be right a lot of times. And most of the time I am. However. And that's why most of our arguments are that she did something wrong and she just does not want to admit that she did something. Which is, it's rare, to be honest. But it happens. She's practically the perfect person. I have to have perspective in moments too to understand things. But, so communication, respect, forgiveness. And then, I just said this the other day and I think it's important to say, but remembering that you're on the same team. Your battle is not against each, it should not be against each other. You are married.

You love each other. This is who you are doing life with. This is truly the person that should bring you so much joy. Like, I look at Shannon and I think, I can't wait till we are retired doing all these things together. And it's not a dream that's going to, it's going to be reality. You know, we love our children and we love being a part of so much together. But we are one. We truly are one in our marriage. Right. We are better together. We say that a lot. We say it all the time. We are better together. When we try to go our, do, you know, life individually, we end up just not happy. So, when we realize that we're better together, it makes everything just so much better. Better.

Better together makes it better and it's all better. Better is what the word of the day is. Yeah, I mean, we went longer today, but I think it's good to go along sometimes. Shoot, well, you realize that we kind of rushed through this. We have a lot to say about marriage. Yes, I do think we'll be able to come back on that a couple of times. We have been through a lot. We've done a lot and we've come out on top, so it's pretty amazing. There's a lot of useful things in there. Like I said, we're not therapists. However, you gain a lot of knowledge by going through it and all of this that we've talked about hasn't been stuff that we've read or stuff that we've studied.

All of this that we've talked about is stuff that we've went through and kind of explained how we navigated through all of that stuff and came out on top, which is helpful. Yeah. But I always suggest, like through my depression and everything else, that we did get counseling. And counseling, there's nothing wrong with getting counseling. There's this negative connotation towards counseling where, in reality, I think it's very, very beneficial for you. There's a lot of people that should just go that aren't in relationships because it really can open up your eyes to some of the things that are going on inside of your head.

And once you realize what's going on inside of your head, just like what we talked about with perspective, once you realize what's going on, it's easier to tackle those issues when you actually have a game plan. So don't just listen to us. If you need help, go get help. Yeah. And thank you for joining us today. We'll definitely, you know, take any of your comments and make sure you share it with your friends. And we're excited that we're back. Yes. And also, if you could, go to standingstronger.com, standingstronger.com. Smash that follow button. Go to your podcasting app of choice, either follow, subscribe, whatever it is, and leave us a review that will really, really help us.

Share it with your friends and family. If you haven't, you know that toxic couple you guys were just out with, and you're like, man, I can't even believe they're still married. Send them this podcast and be like, hey, listen, Shannon and Shannon's got something for you. It really helped me. You know, that's how you do it. You say, it really helped me. I think you guys should listen to it. And then you guys can be like, yeah, we just saved their marriage. I hope. So, thanks. Have a fantastic day. And as always, hopefully we'll see you on the beaches of the world.